[MonoDevelop] Moving SVN repo, website, etc.

[Todd Berman]

On Sun, 2005-07-03 at 18:16 -0500, Payton Byrd wrote:
> Todd Berman wrote: 
> > On Sun, 2005-07-03 at 18:03 -0500, Payton Byrd wrote:
> >   
> > > > Do you think it should just be on monodevelop.org and point to bits on
> > > > the wiki, or something different?
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > I do not believe MD belongs in the same Wiki as Mono as it implies that 
> > > it will work wherever Mono works, which is not now the case, and 
> > > probably never will be.
> > > 
> > >     
> > 
> > It works in as many places as Cocoa# does, which is also in the
> > mono-project wiki.
> > 
> > --Todd
> > 
> >   
> If I were running the Mono project I would be very, very careful about
> how things were grouped together from a marketing perspective.  Novell
> is now a Linux company, but Mono's stated goal is to be as ubiquitous
> on Windows, Mac OS, and Unix as is Java.  Tying in packages that
> purposely don't run on Windows isn't going to help Novell get Mono
> into places that are Windows strongholds.
> 

The mono project includes plenty of things that don't run on windows.
Look at the gnome, gnomevfs, gstreamer, etc namespaces of gtk-sharp.
Look at cocoa#, look at the mono debugger. There are plenty of things
that just don't work on windows now, and may never.

I don't think mono's stated goal is 'to be as ubiquitous on Windows, Max
OS, and Unix as is Java'. In fact, the following is pasted from the
mono-project website, from the first FAQ entry:

"The Mono Project is an open development initiative sponsored by Novell
that is working to develop an open source, UNIX version of the
Microsoft .NET development platform. Its objective is to enable UNIX
developers to build and deploy cross-platform .NET Applications."

Can you point to where it says Windows? I might be missing it, but it
just doesn't appear to be there.

> I, for one, have never understood the need for MonoDevelop to fork
> from Sharp Develop.  The time and effort put into porting to GTK#
> could have been better spent getting SWF working in Mono so that the
> Sharp Develop code would run on Mono unaltered, and infinitely improve
> Mono's market position as a tool to allow truly ubiqitous
> client-server development platform that would outperform Java in every
> way.
> 

#D's code would never run on Mono unaltered, as it uses COM, and
pinvokes into kernel32.dll, and uses IE ActiveX components, and other
unmanaged win32 things.

If you have never understood the need for MonoDevelop then I have a few
questions for you.

1) Why are you on this mailing list?
2) Why did you reply to this thread?
3) Why do you care?


> MonoDevelop has a very important psycological position in the world
> of .Net development.  It's name infers that where Mono goes, MD goes
> as well.  If someone new to Mono goes balls-to-the-walls out to get
> going with Mono, tries to download the branded IDE, and then discovers
> it doesn't work on Windows, he's going to be pretty pissed and quite
> likely to blow off Mono as vaporware or hypeware. (did I just coin a
> new term?)

We make it pretty clear that it does not work on Windows. As well as
that, we have stated about five hundred times in the past that we would
like to see that change, but being a group of Linux developers, are not
going to do the legwork for it to happen. Certainly we would help, but
no one here runs windows as their primary operating system, so it
doesn't much matter that it doesn't run on Win32, to them.

To people who do care, let your fingers do the voting, and write code.

Anyway, and not to be a dick, but you will most likely interpret this as
such, considering that you have no understanding of the need that
MonoDevelop is attempting to fill, and don't write code for it. I will
just not count your opinion on what we do with our web/svn repositories.
I am not sure we need to continue discussing this particular tangent any
more.

--Todd