[Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext

Nikita Tsukanov keks9n at gmail.com
Thu May 15 18:12:39 UTC 2014 

The main problem that someone have to implement HTTP-server and
websocket-handling code on top of that, since existing implementations
(Nowin, websocket implementations on top of XSockets, SuperSockets.NET,
etc) are bound to thread pool model. I think it's much better to find some
existing HTTP/WebSocket server library, wrap it and use for hosting
ASP.NETvNext applications. It will safe a lot of pain. Althrough it's
possible to
patch something like Nowin in a way, that it would be able to use both
models and switch between them.


2014-05-15 21:59 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>:

> Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite
> close to what is needed.
>
>
> 2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>:
>
> There are some existing wrappers:
>> https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp  - Dead, no commits for 3 years
>> https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
>> https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ),
>> so it should have same problems with thread pool
>>
>>
>> 2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com>:
>>
>> That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv
>>> wrapper from looking looks fairly promising.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
>>>> event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
>>>> HttpListener on top of it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
>>>>> most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
>>>>> BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
>>>>> Because of that we have overhead even with simple
>>>>> void ReadNext()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    _socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=>
>>>>>    {
>>>>>        _socket.EndRecieve(res);
>>>>>        ReadNext();
>>>>>    });
>>>>> }
>>>>> On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction
>>>>> that is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
>>>>> anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
>>>>> improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
>>>>> connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
>>>>> loop run in single thread.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza <miguel at xamarin.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this
>>>>>> is done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas <
>>>>>>> roope at grandcrugames.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a tangent...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
>>>>>>>> behind Socket code.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could that be something to investigate?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Roope Kangas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
>>>>>>>> that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second
>>>>>>>> where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent
>>>>>>>> they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not
>>>>>>>> been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which
>>>>>>>> is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get
>>>>>>>> much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux.
>>>>>>>> @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some
>>>>>>>> more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza <
>>>>>>>> miguel at xamarin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Nikita!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your approach looks fabulous!   I look forward to trying it out!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov <
>>>>>>>>> keks9n at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
>>>>>>>>>> http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since
>>>>>>>>>> for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know
>>>>>>>>>> (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in
>>>>>>>>>> production for half of a year).
>>>>>>>>>> Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI
>>>>>>>>>> and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
>>>>>>>>>> implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it
>>>>>>>>>> would be great to wrap something like
>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
>>>>>>>>>> support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>> Nikita
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani <mzabani at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Wow! This is such great news!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
>>>>>>>>>>> developed Fos <http://github.com/mzabani/Fos> on a very
>>>>>>>>>>> permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono
>>>>>>>>>>> on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my
>>>>>>>>>>> spare time is running lower these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps,
>>>>>>>>>>> Marcelo.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza <
>>>>>>>>>>> miguel at xamarin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello guys!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://github.com/aspnet/home
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mono (does not even use System.Web.dll!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono
>>>>>>>>>>>> has been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> server can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been
>>>>>>>>>>>> plaguing us for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin
>>>>>>>>>>>> folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a great time to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and
>>>>>>>>>>>>    submit contributions that will make the software run on Unix.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and
>>>>>>>>>>>>    help us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of
>>>>>>>>>>>>    our bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to
>>>>>>>>>>>>    mono).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>    - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters
>>>>>>>>>>>>    for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Unix than you can on Windows.  While this is a tall order, my friend David
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Miller would expect nothing less from us.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs and love,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>> Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Studying for the Turing test
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Studying for the Turing test
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Studying for the Turing test
>>>
>>
>>
>
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