[Mono-dev] Mono and ASP.NET vNext

Nikita Tsukanov keks9n at gmail.com
Thu May 15 17:59:45 UTC 2014 

Now I'm digging the source code and it seems that second one is quite close
to what is needed.


2014-05-15 21:51 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>:

> There are some existing wrappers:
> https://github.com/kersny/libuv-csharp  - Dead, no commits for 3 years
> https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp - uses Task (
> https://github.com/txdv/LibuvSharp/blob/master/Examples/TcpAsync.cs ), so
> it should have same problems with thread pool
>
>
> 2014-05-15 21:41 GMT+04:00 Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com>:
>
> That would make sense as the models are different. Also that libuv wrapper
>> from looking looks fairly promising.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I think we should have something like Mono.Sockets with abstraction of
>>> event loop and I/O code based on libuv or whatever, and build classes like
>>> HttpListener on top of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-05-15 21:30 GMT+04:00 Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I suspect that having libuv behind socket code won't help much, since
>>>> most of socket performance problems are related to the fact that
>>>> BeginSend/Recieve, event loop and AsyncCallback run in different threads.
>>>> Because of that we have overhead even with simple
>>>> void ReadNext()
>>>> {
>>>>    _socket.BeginRecieve(buf, blablabla, res=>
>>>>    {
>>>>        _socket.EndRecieve(res);
>>>>        ReadNext();
>>>>    });
>>>> }
>>>> On windows that works fine because of IOCP behind that abstraction that
>>>> is designed to be used with thread pool. *nix platforms doesn't have
>>>> anything like IOCP, only epoll/kqueue, so for actual performance
>>>> improvement one have to use single-threaded approach (with round-robin
>>>> connection dispatch between workers), when all I/O operations and event
>>>> loop run in single thread.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-05-15 20:55 GMT+04:00 Miguel de Icaza <miguel at xamarin.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, i want to see a prototype, and then decide.
>>>>>
>>>>> So this needs to be done with some kind of peer framework where this
>>>>> is done.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes I would say moving both to libuv would be a good move :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Roope Kangas <
>>>>>> roope at grandcrugames.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a tangent...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be really nice if something like libuv would the thing
>>>>>>> behind Socket code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could that be something to investigate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mono could basically piggyback on nodejs development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Roope Kangas
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15.5.2014, at 15.00, Greg Young <gregoryyoung1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the one issue I have seen with the libevent implementation is
>>>>>>> that it seems to perform very poorly in windows (+-5k hello worlds/second
>>>>>>> where as its closer to 100k/second in linux). From researching libevent
>>>>>>> they supposedly now use IOCP in windows and should be better but I have not
>>>>>>> been able to make this happen. It may also be worth looking at libuv which
>>>>>>> is pretty close to a drop in replacement for libevent as it seems to get
>>>>>>> much better performance in windows and similar performance in linux.
>>>>>>> @Nikita I will hopefully have some time next week and likely will send some
>>>>>>> more pull requests in relation to the memory allocation patterns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:56 AM, Miguel de Icaza <miguel at xamarin.com
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Nikita!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your approach looks fabulous!   I look forward to trying it out!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Miguel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Nikita Tsukanov <keks9n at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll try to implement OWIN host on top of my libevent built-in
>>>>>>>>> http server ( https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp ) since
>>>>>>>>> for now it's the fastest thing for handling HTTP-requests on Mono I know
>>>>>>>>> (now it has host implementation for NancyFx which we are using in
>>>>>>>>> production for half of a year).
>>>>>>>>> Although both evhttp-sharp and FastCGI servers like HyperFastCGI
>>>>>>>>> and Fos, are incapable of serving websockets (one because of underlying
>>>>>>>>> implementation, another because of limitations of FastCGI protocol), so it
>>>>>>>>> would be great to wrap something like
>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kekekeks/evhttp-sharp which has websocket
>>>>>>>>> support and positioned as evhttp drop-in replacement.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Nikita
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2014-05-14 19:29 GMT+04:00 Marcelo Zabani <mzabani at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow! This is such great news!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for running Owin applications with Unix HTTP servers, I've
>>>>>>>>>> developed Fos <http://github.com/mzabani/Fos> on a very
>>>>>>>>>> permissive license and a focus on good documentation and running with Mono
>>>>>>>>>> on *nix. I would very much love getting contributions on this, because my
>>>>>>>>>> spare time is running lower these days.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps,
>>>>>>>>>> Marcelo.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Miguel de Icaza <
>>>>>>>>>> miguel at xamarin.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello guys!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft has open sourced ASP.NET vNext:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://github.com/aspnet/home
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is an entire new web stack that only needs the core of Mono
>>>>>>>>>>> (does not even use System.Web.dll!).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So these are of course great news, because (a) The core Mono has
>>>>>>>>>>> been in active development, and (b) that means that Mono's on the server
>>>>>>>>>>> can be used without all those pesky limitations that have been plaguing us
>>>>>>>>>>> for years.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So we ran into a couple of limitations in Mono: some classes
>>>>>>>>>>> that they need are not implemented (I filed a bug, and a couple of Xamarin
>>>>>>>>>>> folks decided to take on that on their copious spare time) and we have a
>>>>>>>>>>> couple of bugs on FileSystemWatcher on OSX.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a great time to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    - Get involved with the github.com/aspnet project and submit
>>>>>>>>>>>    contributions that will make the software run on Unix.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    - Look into technologies like Owin and Katana (sp?) and help
>>>>>>>>>>>    us have a story that plugs into Unix HTTP servers (the equivalent of our
>>>>>>>>>>>    bridge between Apache and mono: mod_mono, or our Fast CGI bridge to mono).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>    - Take Mono's new profiling tools and performance counters
>>>>>>>>>>>    for a spin and help us fine tune the runtime to run .NET code faster on
>>>>>>>>>>>    Unix than you can on Windows.  While this is a tall order, my friend David
>>>>>>>>>>>    Miller would expect nothing less from us.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs and love,
>>>>>>>>>>> Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Studying for the Turing test
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Studying for the Turing test
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Studying for the Turing test
>>
>
>
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