[MonoDevelop] Comments on Stetic GU designer

[Grzegorz Sobanski]

* Tony Caduto <tony_caduto at amsoftwaredesign.com> [2006-06-05 16:56]:
> JimD wrote:
> >Is there a way to add it?  Why can't you let developers make their own
> >choice?  Isn't that part of what Linux and Open Source is about?

> I agree, if there are core developers reading this, please add the
> fixed container so those of us that are used to win32 development
> can have something that is similar.
<flamewar warning ;)>
Linux and generally OS is not meant to be similar to win32, but better.
</flamewar warning>
> 
> I don't want to hear "You have the source" fix it yourself either, I am
> not a monodevelop hacker and by the time the learning curve is out of
> the way I would have wasted a ton of time, so let's not start the you 
> have the source thing. (I only mention this because every time I have 
> pointed out a shortcoming in a open source project someone will say it)

Maybe you are missing the whole OS point?
With os projects people are coding what they want, what the like, and
especially what they need. Not every project has the goal of being
used (and usable) by all people around.
So if you want something you can write it, politely ask fot it (is what
you have done which, I must say, I appriciate) or "motivate" developers
to do that.

But, back to the point.

There are features, that aren't needed for most people. And they
probalbly wan't be implemented if just one person asks for it. Even if
he thinks "a lot of people would like that" (and we often thinks so - if
I want sth, hunderds of poeple want it too).
And it is imo like that with "fixed container" - MD is mainly used 
by *nix developers and this feature is rarely used by them.

> I am sorry(not trying to start a flame war) but the whole panel way of 
> building a GUI is not intuitive at all and makes designing a simple GUI 

You mean panel way = using GTK containers?
It isn't intuitive only at the first moment.
In a short time it becomes just natural way of doing GUI. It is fast and
efficient, independant of environment, gives resizable almost freely,
etc.
What makes developing GUI under windows hard for me is lack of
containers :) A lot of things is just impossible (without additional code)
with just anchor/alignment.

> a huge pain in the rear. A better solution would be to have 
> anchor/alignment properties or something similar for the fixed panel, so 
> I can make a edit control resize if I want to, that's how it's done in 
> Delphi and VS.net. Also in Delphi I can put a panel and I can set 

You are missing the point here.
Backend of Gtk# is Gtk, and that is how widget layout is done there.
It is just principle of Gtk design.
It evolved during the years, is mature, very powerful, yet very simple.
So MD (and other GUI designers) won't ever have the anchor/alignment 
because gtk dosen't have it, but have sometihng better.

If you just need it for sth (I can't understand what for) you can wait
for WinForms to being usable and use that backend.

> alignment properties if I want stuff to resize automatically, for 
> example I can put a panel and align it to bottom, add a splitter then 
> another panel and align that to client. 

So in Gtk you can just put a cointainer, add widgets to it, set
properties to resizable for the one you want, and it is ready.

> The fact that MonoDevelop tries 
> to force the whole panel thing is ridiculous.

Still meaning "panel thing" as cointainers?
It is the design of gtk. No ones "tries to force" anything.
It is just the way it is under Linux. It has to, some of the reasons
were in other posts.

> If Monodevelop is to be a success it needs to be easy to use, think VB 3 
> back in the early 90s.  without a doubt VB 3 is what led to the huge 

And most apps writen in VB3 were unusable, examples of very bad gui
design, nonresizable, and so on.
We have now 2006 and not "early 90s" let's stick to good things(tm) and
make MD promote good practics and not the bad ones.

> popularity of windows.  The same thing could happen to Gnome and Linux.

Maybe huge popularity is not the main goal of Gnome and Linux?
But good, usable software is?

Regards

-- 
Grzegorz "Silk" Sobański                        silk (at) boktor.net
Error messages from an old Apple C compiler:       http://boktor.net
String literal too long (I let you have 512 characters, 
that's 3 more than ANSI said I should)