[Mono-osx] Mono 1.1.0 Cocoa# + MWF

kangaroo grompf at sublimeintervention.com
Wed Nov 23 11:33:53 EST 2005

On 23-Nov-05, at 11:17 AM, Miguel de Icaza wrote:

> Hello,
>> Second, I'll believe anything on Gtk+-osx when I start seeing the
>> source;
> The source got checked into CVS two days ago.

Yes it did, and I've started digging thru it.  I have started to form  
some opinions; but I wont comment until I've had more time to go thru  

> So Gtk# and Windows.Forms are options for some folks.

I was never saying they aren't options.

> Am very supportive of Cocoa# but lets not trash the other toolkits in
> the process, I think each one has its pros and cons.

I never meant any of my comments to "bash/trash" any other toolkits.   
All of my comments were in reference directly to their usability on a  
Mac, not their usability in general.  If anyone construed any of my  
comments as such; consider this my clarification.

>> As for Gtk 2.10 having a quartz driver; its backed by cairo and I've
>> worked on the current cairo-quartz surface; and I can tell you it
>> needs some love before using it for Gtk+ on OSX as a full windowing
>> system (MWF-OSX uses it today and its less than ideal).
> Well, Gtk/Cairo runs very smoothly and is very fast.   Mono's Winforms
> code has not been tuned like Gtk has and is noticeably slower.
> I think we are only starting to scratch the surface on what can be  
> done
> to improve the rendering performance.  We know there is a gap  
> because of
> the Gtk vs Winforms speed differences (both using Cairo).  I am happy
> extrapolating that difference.

The cairo-quartz surface driver is specifically what I was referring  
to; not cairo/gtk+ tweaking in general.  XRender gives some wonderful  
gains on the xlib backend that the quartz surface does not.  Every  
time you want to paint to a quartz surface; cairo renders everything  
with pixman into a cairo-image first; then blits that image onto the  
quartz surface.  This is definately not ideal.  If you start getting  
large surfaces (say >800x600) performance starts to just fall apart  
completely.  The mozilla guys (vlad and I have discussed this as  
well) have noticed this as well.  This isn't to say it wont get fixed/ 
changed; its just the current state of the union.


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