[Mono-list] NET using Java VMs and libs

Patrik Torstensson totte@labs2.com
Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:14:45 +0100

Please stop, look at the www.go-mono.com/rationale.html for the reason
why we are developing a .NET CLR port to Linux and the other platforms.
We will NOT use the Java  VM, others may but we will not. 

We will support a number of platforms when we release the Mono runtime
(both Solaris and PPC ports are ongoing) so your overall request will be

So, stop the discussion about Java VMs, please search the message
archives before asking this kind of questions or at least check the

- Patrik

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Niels Peter Strandberg [mailto:nielspeter@npstrandberg.com] 
> Sent: den 27 mars 2002 11:58
> To: apeiron@prophecy.dyndns.org; mono-list@ximian.com
> Subject: Re: [Mono-list] NET using Java VMs and libs
> >> Microsoft is "the evil Empire"!  ;-)
> >
> > Believing this will get you nowhere fast. Believing some group or 
> > company to be "evil" limits your ability to accept what 
> they've done. 
> > In fact, by subscribing to this theory, you're 
> contradicting yourself 
> > by using Mono at all -- since, really, it _is_ a (port of 
> a) creation 
> > of this _Evil Empire_, no?
> >
> >>
> >> This is not about Sun vs Microsoft. This is not about Microsoft. . 
> >> This is about not need to own the latest windows, or 
> window att all. 
> >> Isn't that what mono is all about, when they want mono to run on 
> >> linux?
> >
> > Agreed. But if this is so, why the line about the "Evil 
> Empire" above, 
> > even if it is in jest?
> If you look at my first posting to this list, I don't mention 
> MS as the 
> "Evil Empire" or even making such a suggestion. I don't say any thing 
> bad about MS. It was one who replied to my posting who used 
> the words: 
> "...I don't understand why people consider Sun some kind of 
> benevolent 
> dictator and Microsoft the Evil Empire (tm). "
> So me suggesting Java VM as another way to get NET up an running on 
> other platforms, make me a MS hater?
> What I tried to say in my following posting, is that this is 
> not about 
> Sun or MS, its about running NET on other platforms! This is 
> the whole 
> idea of mono!
> >> It is very hard to discuss this with some people, because all they 
> >> can or "want to know" is Windows. They have invested maybe 
> >> 1000-10.000  of hours on learning to do window 
> programming, then it 
> >> is very hard to start looking outside windows. But there is a 
> >> beautyful world outside MS, full of wonderful OS'es.
> >>
> >> Java is a billion dollar industry. You have Application Servers,
> >> costing
> >> 10.000 of dollars, running hardware costing 100.000 
> dollars. So Java is
> >> not "the next greatest after NET". NET is still a baby compared to 
> >> Java.
> >> Just because it dos not come from MS, dos not mean that it is bad!
> >
> > The same "all they want to know is Windows", with your 
> Java. Why limit 
> > yourself to just Java? Further, as has been stated 
> previously and will 
> > be stated in the future, the _entire purpose_ of Mono -- 
> aye, .NET as 
> > a whole -- is to create a language independent development platform 
> > that produces platform independent binaries. It really is the next 
> > generation of computing. Limiting yourself to one language 
> seriously 
> > hinders this advancement.
> Well if I thought that Java was the "only" language, then why 
> do I show 
> interest i C# and NET, by subscribing to this list?
> The strength of Java, has been that I can use Java apps on 
> win, linux, 
> mac os x without doing any recompiling, or modifications.
> >> So this should not be a discussion on "who is best", but 
> how to make
> >> NET
> >> run on other platforms, and I think "with my limited 
> knowledge of NET"
> >> that Java would be a good place to start the discussion.
> >
> > So why are you basically saying "Java is the best for .NET"? If you 
> > really are out for the best for .NET, you won't want to immediately 
> > limit it to one language -- and thus immediately limit it's 
> abilities 
> > to that one language. Rather, you'll want to maintain the language 
> > independent framework with which .NET was designed.
> Forget Java! Let me try this again. You do your programming 
> in C#. But 
> runs it on a Java VM! You don't need to know Java to do this. This of 
> cause means that the NET classes is either written/converted 
> to Java, or 
> compiled direct to java byte code, and run on the VM.
> I don't care if you use Java and the Java VM!!!!!!! All Im saying is 
> that Java VM,s exists for a multitude of OS'es and platforms. 
> So if you 
> can get NET to run on to of a Java VM, then you are building 
> on top of a 
> well tested VM. And you are not limited to Sun! IBM and 
> others is making 
> there own VM's.
> >> I myself runs Win, Linux and Mac OS X. The win is only for games!
> >
> > OK, so you run Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.
> This is to illustrate, that not all uses Win as there main OS, and to 
> illustrate that it would be nice to do NET on all of them!
> Niels Peter
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