[Mono-list] some questions?

[Adam Treat]

--- Antonio Rafael Dias Teixeira <ATeixeira@adp.com.br> wrote:
> >> 1. Suppose I were to write a compiler for java that
> >> generates CIL bytecodes. Would I be able to use the
> >> Mono libraries? The libraries are written in csharp
> >> which would seem to preclude there use in java... but
> >> isn't that the whole idea behind a common language
> >> runtime? What magic is this?
> 
> First, yes, youīll be using Mono libraries, mapped probably as if
> they
> were packages. And any class you write in this "MonoJava" or
> "Java.NET",
> would be useable by the other languages. But the catch is it is Java
> syntax over Mono/.NET object model. To integrate the Java runtime so
> that you could run precompiled classes is something else much harder,
> and for now I think itīs out of the scope of the Mono project.

That's ok, I wasn't considering precompiled class files.

> >> 2. I take it that the Mono libraries are from the ECMA
> >> specs. Are these complete? I mean did Microsoft
> >> _really_ submit all of their .NET environment
> >> libraries to ECMA? Windows.Forms and ADO.NET and
> >> ASP.NET and everything?
> 
> No, Microsoft kept to himself lots of classes, some in a specific
> Microsoft namespace. Besides ECMA is working with a smaller set just
> now, and may even diverge on their final standard from the current
> Microsoft implementation.

I think it would be usefull to document all these classes on the mono
website and possibly provide there status (native code etc, etc.) and
what the implications are for porting to Mono.  I know that the mono
website has a list of ported classes (or in the midst of porting), but
I 'm talking about a full list of all of Microsoft's .NET related
classes...  This way we might have a common framework for debating a
specific classes inclusion into Mono. Anyone else feel this would be
worthwhile?

> >> 3. If the ECMA libraries are not complete... Is Mono
> >> attempting to produce an environment and libraries for
> >> Microsoft's version of .NET or just what is published
> >> under the ECMA?
> 
> Yes, there are many usefull classes not on ECMA current-list, that
> are
> being targeted by mono collaborators.
> 
> >> 4. If Mono is trying to produce an environment
> >> compatible to Microsoft's version of .NET not just the
> >> ECMA specs then isn't that giving a lot of power to
> >> Microsoft? I mean not only could Microsoft choose to
> >> break compatibility, but they would have full control
> >> over the data schemes and the libraries as well...
> >> Doesn't anyone see this as a problem?
> 
> If we are quick and bring it to fruition soon, maybe a lot of
> applications may become available for ECMA and/or mono so that
> Microsoft
> wonīt want to become incompatible, with their own and with ours
> implementation.

I don't think it would be wise to count on this though.  Microsoft
_will do_ whatever is best for there bottom line.  I see no possible
reason Microsoft would have to keep compatibility with Mono.  They
_might_ want to keep compatibility with prior versions of .NET but I am
not convinced this is the case.  Besides compatibility there are bigger
issues at stake.  If we let Microsoft dictate how the libraries are to
be laid out and what the content is, all for the sake of Mono being
able to say we are ".NET Compatible" then we necessarily grant
Microsoft _huge_ power over us.  They will be able to control the data
schemas and the content and layout of core libraries.  I imagine they
will be bundling API's for a number of there products into these
libraries such as Media Player, their Outlook program or WebTV.  Does
Mono truly intend to reproduce these libraries however they might on
Linux?  If not then what is the strategy? Will we be producing
"compatible" libraries for Evolution and XMPS and so on?

> 
> >> 5. Obviously I have a problem contributing to the mono
> >> compiler because I have no windows partition and it
> >> can not compile itself yet. Could I use wine for this?
> >> Has anyone tried?
> 
> Maybe someone else has more to say about it, for me itīs been hard
> because .NET canīt be installed on any version of windows (it
> mandates
> NT 4 or Win2000), and my machine at home has WinME, and my business
> machine is used for development with VB6 and therefore canīt be mixed
> with .NET. For those finnicky enough to ask, a RED HAT Linux Box is
> my
> Web server/second workstation at home.
> 
> >> 6. Not really a question... I've been reading the
> >> discussion over Portable.NET's compiler and Mono's. I
> >> see reason for both. I for one would want to use
> >> Portable.NET's compiler to compile Mono's. I do not
> >> trust Microsoft's version of the compiler nor there
> >> insinuations of possible licensing issues with using
> >> Microsoft tools to build competing products.
> 
> Me neither, if you can write a CSharp compiler in Java, for me it
> would
> help us bootstrap the process as well. I wonīt try to offer a VB6
> version not to be ridiculed, but maybe Iīll start to write a VB.NET
> compiler for Mono, in C# obviously.
> 
> THIS QUESTION IS FOR MIGUEL: Would you accept it (a VB.NET compiler)
> on
> Mono?
> 
> >> 7. I have been monitoring the dotGNU list also and
> >> have been surprised to see quite a bit of malice
> >> towards Mono. Some have even suggested that Mono not
> >> be used as the runtime environment. This seems to be a
> >> tactical error. I was under the impression that dotGNU
> >> and Mono were to be complements of each other. Mono
> >> supplying the runtime environment and tools and dotGNU
> >> the authentication and web services. Can anyone
> >> clarify the relationship between dotGNU and Mono?
> 
> Nothing much to say about it, but it seems dotGNU want to leverage
> their
> knowledge about their (FSF) tools, gcc and all. For the end user it
> may
> not matter, and perhaps they can even perceive some speed advantage,
> but
> the big question is for us poor developers Mono offers a better
> structured framework (like Java, but not tied to a single language).
> 
> Sorry for talking too much...
> 
> Rafael Teixeira
> Brazilian Developer

I have seen some positive discussion of Portable.NET on dotGNU and I
imagine that not everyone involved with dotGNU is opposed to Mono.  Is
there an "official" relationship between Mono and dotGNU?  

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