[Mono-dev] Linq, Nhibernate or subsonic ?

Tue Jul 1 06:32:58 EDT 2008

Because NHiberate is hard. I mean really hard. If you want something
"install and go" try castle active record

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui
<safknw at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> My experience with NHibernate is not quite good. I spend a week but
> did not get it working. with subsonic I started working couple of
> hours.
> Why we should implement linq to sql. If we don't have it than a lot of
> applications won't be able to run on mono.
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Onur Gumus <emperon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> yes I did try linq to sql. As a matter of fact at the very beggining
>> of this conversation, I did told those reflect my opinions only and I
>> did not want to start a flamewar. Yet I see you are offended. I
>> certainly understand your pain since it appears to be you love linq to
>> sql and may be waiting for it's implementation on mono and some guy
>> just came up and saying hey no need for linq to sql , we' got
>> nhibernate.
>>
>> Frankly side by side technical comparison I still consider nhibernate
>> superior. For the following reasons:
>>
>> NHibenate works with almost every database and you can  develop true
>> database independent applications. For instance when you finish your
>> product's coding you can deliver it for different databases. Same
>> cannot be applied to linq to sql which only works for sql server. Sure
>> there are implementations for postgress as well but you stick to one
>> database and cannot further modify it.
>>
>> traditionally nhibernate uses criteria and hql based queries which
>> look weird compared to linq's static typing power. But then now we
>> have linq to nhibernate functional and running.
>>
>> Furthermore you are incorrect about xml  because nhibernate supports
>> Attribute based mapping and another option is Castle ActiveRecord.
>> Where you can do the mapping with 0 XML. That's what I do.
>>
>> linq to sql is more data centric approach. You first create your
>> database and from there you generate your classes via sql metal. And
>> the generated code is messy. NHibernate uses domain driven approach
>> which is better for larger scale applications. Namely you totally
>> ignore the existence of your database and just write you classes
>> (including interfaces and your inheritence tree). Then you make your
>> mapping finally you tell nhibernate create the tables for you. It is
>> much more powerful than what linq to sql is capable of. Also linq to
>> sql can only have 1 type of mapping for inheritence where as
>> nhibernate supports 3 types . see how inheritence is applied to both.
>> And I don't think linq to sql supports persistance for your
>> "interfaces"
>>
>> For databinding to gui I use my modified object data source which is
>> just good. But there are other solutions like
>> http://www.codeproject.com/KB/aspnet/NHibernateDataSource.aspx  for
>> web applications .
>>
>> that's just my 2 cents
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 10:59 PM, Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui
>> <safknw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks nicole.
>>> I'm using sunsonic. It is quite easy to learn and it works with .net
>>> 2.0 and mono as well.
>>> I'll suggest Subsonic other as well.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 8:01 PM, nicolasdiazaragon
>>> <nico.diaz.aragon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by saying that not yet having linq to sql isn´t a big loss
>>>> and that it can be replaced by using nhibernate?
>>>> Have you tried linq to sql? have you compared it to using hibernate?
>>>> Maybe if all you code is meant to be part of some desktop application, then
>>>> you are fine with hibernate. But if you intend to build real enterprise
>>>> applications, then you should use linq to sql. Not only does it make code
>>>> more simple and easy to read, it gets things done faster than hibernate does
>>>> and you don't have to bother writing boring XML files. And it let´s you use
>>>> nameless class types while querying the data base. These nameless classes
>>>> can then be bound to a GUI control or used for further processing. Try doing
>>>> that with hibernate... you would have to perform very expensive castings
>>>> (all your query results are strongly typed in linq to sql, but not in
>>>> hibernate... everything returned by a hibernate query is just an
>>>> 'object'...) and there is absolutely no WAY to use nameless types while
>>>> querying the database with hibernate.
>>>> I've been writing java code since I was a 14 year old. I begun coding JEE at
>>>> the same time I became acquainted with the dot net framework. By the time
>>>> linq to sql was released (a couple of years later) I was very dissapointed
>>>> because I realized that the dot net framework had leaped light years ahead
>>>> of java (my personal favorite until then).
>>>> So no linq to sql support is a huge loss to me. If I were to code some
>>>> enterprise application without linq to sql support, I´d rather work on JEE
>>>> than on dot net.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> reverse blade wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Before comparing the technical merits you should consider that "Linq to
>>>>> SQL"
>>>>> is not supported by mono at the moment.(Which is not a big loss for me
>>>>> anyway). Linq is the general name given to linq bindings and currently we
>>>>> have : Linq to Objects, Linq to Sql, Linq to XML, Linq to JSON, Linq to
>>>>> NHibernate, Linq to DB4O, etc ... bindings  are available if I recall
>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>
>>>>> For subsonic and NHibernate , I never used subsonic on mono but I've read
>>>>> it
>>>>> was working on mono. On the other hand, I used NHibernate extensively on
>>>>> mono/linux/postgresql and I am quite happy with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, Nhibernate does support stored procs but triggers and views are
>>>>> not
>>>>> supported by any of these frameworks directly. NHibernate offers
>>>>> interceptors for intercepting your db transactions before it hits to db's
>>>>> so
>>>>> in a way it emulates triggers that way. Still however you can use triggers
>>>>> independently. Not sure how others handle it. Finally it took 1 full month
>>>>> for me to feel myself comfortable with NHibernate due to it's high
>>>>> complexity (or may be I am not smart enough), but it was well worth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> just my 2 cents
>>>>>
>>>>> Onur
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/2/24 Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui <safknw at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm planning to build an ERP for my organisation. We will use mono as
>>>>>> primary development platform. I'm a bit confused abt what should for DAL.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> know little abt linq .
>>>>>> What I have decided for DAL is
>>>>>> 1. auto generated code must be extend able either in same class or as a
>>>>>> separate class.
>>>>>> 2. It must expose all databse views, triggers, stored procedures in DAL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pls help me find out the right thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui
>>>>>> (C++/C# Developer, IT Consultant)
>>>>>> A revolution is about to begin.
>>>>>> A world is about to change.
>>>>>> And you and I are "the initiator".
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mono-devel-list mailing list
>>>>>> Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
>>>>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Linq%2C-Nhibernate-or-subsonic---tp16138540p18070501.html
>>>> Sent from the Mono - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui
>>> (C++/C# Developer, IT Consultant)
>>> http://safknw.blogspot.com/
>>> "Peace" is the Ultimate thing we want.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mono-devel-list mailing list
>>> Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sharique uddin Ahmed Farooqui
> (C++/C# Developer, IT Consultant)
> http://safknw.blogspot.com/
> "Peace" is the Ultimate thing we want.
>