[Gtk-sharp-list] DataGrid control, data binding, ObjectViews, Swf, Gtk

Gennadiy Donchyts don at env.com.ua
Thu Dec 15 07:46:33 EST 2005

Hi Todd,

Thanks for a lot of clarifications :).

On 12/15/05, Todd Berman <tberman at off.net> wrote:

> Holy Crap.
> Ok.
> Give me second while I wade in here with the clue-bat.
> #1) MD is not strictly GPL.
> #2) MD is strictly GPL #D code and MIT X11 new code.

Is it possible to go from GPL => MIT X11 ... or you consider it as just
completely different?

#3) The dock is based on an GPL library, that can be relicensed to the
> MIT X11 for us. (Jeroen, if I am wrong, feel free to beat me). In fact,
> we should hunt this down and get it fixed up if it is possible, see
> point #6.

yes, please :), then I could use it too, because I stopped to dig more
inside when I saw GPL there.

> #4) This 'Novell license' is the MIT X11 license, the only mention of
> Novell is in the copyright, because it is code written by Lluis as a
> Novell employee, so Novell owns the copyright. The code is still MIT
> X11.


#5) SWF controls are not easy/helpful to port to gtk# in all honesty. In
> fact, they suck to port. Everything is pretty different, and you don't
> want to use System.Drawing on Linux if you can use Cairo directly (imo),
> and even if you did, its still not a good path to rainbows and puppies.

I like to use NPlot, for example, it uses Windows.Drawing, do you know any
alternative to it in pure Cairo-based Gtk#?

#6) I have no idea what license the data grid is under, but if it is not
> MIT X11, it will have to be removed from MD with a quickness. If Daniel
> can relicense it, great, if he cant/wont, then its toast, we *DO NOT*
> want to push any license but the MIT X11.

Can you give a one short definition of why in your oppinion is MIT X11
better then i.e. LGPL?
If there will be some library/widget which is veeeery good and licensed
under LGPL and
you'd like to use it in MD will not you miss it?

> #7) Mike Kestner is my personal savior. He wrote, maintains, and rocks
> out (with his cock out) all over gtk#.
> #8) Whatever widget library you wonderful people cook up will most
> likely never be put into gtk# itself. This has been the stance in the
> past w/ gtk#, and is a sane one. gtk# is a wrapper for gtk+, not a
> wrapper + extension + other cool widgets. Another library would be a
> great place for other cool widgets. Now. That said, a single widget
> library to rule them all is a bad idea. As a developer, I want
> copy/pastable code. I want to include your source into my app. That
> makes it easy to update, and easy to deploy. It makes me feel warm, and
> well loved.

If library is "properly" developed - consider it as a repository of all
widgets/controls not as a one big library with everything messed up. If
and maintaining everything in a good way and keep to some rules - copy paste
will work just fine ;).
... I would consider it as something like lovely widgets set/repository :)).
.. ok, maybe some additional layer of
independent utilities/helpers.

> #9) Please dont use the Gtk.Controls namespace. Use a new toplevel, like
> the rest of gtk#.

Yes, I see that it makes no sence now. And in this case it makes even more
sense to have a
higher level widgets library since Gtk# is supposed to be as close to Gtk+
as possible? And
our subj. is something .NET-stylish, ... and it should be separate for sure.

Some guesses/votes:

1. Gwl (Gtk# Widgets Library), ... NGwl ;)
2. Some short name like nice used for other mono libraries.
3. ??

> #10) As far as looking for widgets for this library, all of
> MonoDevelop.Components is pretty slick awesomeness.

They are nice, but not all is complete as I see. Since there are a lot of
which can be designed and implemented separately - I see a big need of such
and it will bring more people to Gtk# for sure :).

... maybe Eclipse / SWT is a nice example of similar approach since ther is
also separate library for UI
and another advantage is that it would be easier to maintain it.

An ideal situation would be if people involved in MD development also will
take part in design and development of such
a library but at the same time to keep it generic to be used in any other
application at the same time.
(I looked only on TreeView in MD and as I know now it also uses some MD
Services, Commands .
also not completely easy for copy/paste :)).

> Anyway. This conversation looked like it was going nowhere relatively
> quickly, and with near terminal velocity.

.. it just some thoughts/ideas to make life easier and not to google and
look for place where it is
possible to copy/paste each we need some more advanced and nice widget.

Hopefully some of these points
> can clear some things up. And the other ones that are clearly my opinion
> can just be taken as words of advice from someone who has been writing
> gtk# applications for the last 2 years. (Holy crap, Pedro and I did
> start hacking on MD 2 years ago).

Thanks - very informative and usefull :).


> --Todd
> On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 22:36 -0300, Victor Rafael Rivarola Soerensen
> (FANATICO y LOCO por Cristo) wrote:
> > Sorry Mike, its just that I have never hard from you before (that I
> > remember), and I was surprisd to see Daniel mention you. I thought
> > that he was doing it by mistake, he obvously knew you.
> >
> > Jesus bless you all,
> >
> > Víctor Rafael Rivarola
> >
> > 2005/12/14, Victor Rafael Rivarola Soerensen (FANATICO y LOCO por
> > Cristo) <vrrivaro at gmail.com>:
> > > Ok, I received this from the "Daniel Morgan" <monodanmorg AT
> > > yahoo.com> on the MonoDevelop list:
> > >
> > > > The source to the gtk# datagrid I posted can be licensed under the
> GNU LGPL license.  I
> > > > put Kris's name in the Author because I took source code from a
> TreeView sample found
> > > > in gtk-sharp.
> > > >
> > > > I can't do anything about code in MonoDevelop because Chris took the
> datagrid from an
> > > > old sqlsharpgtk and put it into MD.  He fixed some stuff in the MD
> version.  Since MD is
> > > > licensed under the very strict GPL, I would not use the data grid
> from MD as your source.
> > > >
> > > > Either use the datagrid I posted on the list or from
> sqlsharpgtk.  Both can be licensed
> > > > under the LGPL.
> > > >
> > > > Some questions for Mike Kestner:
> > > > What license does GTK# fall under?  MIT X11 or LGPL?
> > > > What license does the samples in gtk-sharp release tarball fall
> under?  MIT X11 or
> > > > LGPL?  Or are samples in the public domain?
> > >
> > > I do not know who Mike Kestner is nor did I mention him in any of my
> > > mails (I checked), but Daniel has a point there: if final intention is
> > > an adoption by Gtk#, we better stick with the LGPL.
> > >
> > > Jesus bless you all,
> > >
> > > Víctor Rafael Rivarola
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Por cuanto eres tibio, y no frío ni caliente, te vomitaré de mi
> boca."
> > > Apocalipsis 3:16
> > >
> > > LOCO
> > > "Porque la Palabra de la Cruz es locura para los que se pierden; pero
> a
> > > los que se salvan, esto es, a nosotros, es poder de Dios."
> > > 1 Corintios 1:18
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Por cuanto eres tibio, y no frío ni caliente, te vomitaré de mi boca."
> > Apocalipsis 3:16
> >
> > LOCO
> > "Porque la Palabra de la Cruz es locura para los que se pierden; pero a
> > los que se salvan, esto es, a nosotros, es poder de Dios."
> > 1 Corintios 1:18
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gtk-sharp-list maillist  -  Gtk-sharp-list at lists.ximian.com
> > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/gtk-sharp-list
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