[Mono-winforms-list] Windows Forms.
Tyler
tyler.wilson@acm.org
Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:16:14 -0800
I tend to be on Gregs 'side' on this one. I would rather see a 'clean'
WinForms implementation that is as thin and functional as
possible.
I think much of the issue has to do with how Microsoft presents
.NET the existing Windows programmers, and how those
developers will then use it. Just perusing the .NET docs, they do
not make the cross-platform ability of .NET a very big highlight
item. They do highlight the cross-language ability and the
migration of knowledge and code that already exists.
>From the developers point of view, I see the Win32-.NET migration
similar to the DOS-Windows and then Win16-Win32 migration.
They make it as painless for the developer to move to the next step
as possible, while keeping them on the MS path. Which is why
DirectX and Win32s were created. .NET is the same thing. If they
did not allow programmers to call directly into a WndProc it might
result in better, cleaner cross-platform code.
But that is not in MSs best interest. Most Win32 programmers are
accustomed to subclassing, superclassing, etc. to get much of
their work done. And to recreate this completely in WinForms on
.NET would either add quite a bit to the size of WinForms, or 'limit'
the programming to not changing the look of all controls in their
application or somesuch because they stuck to just the basic
cross-platform stuff (AWT?).
As for mono, I think it is extremely important to get a WinForm
implementation in there as soon as possible in whatever way is
most expedient. After that a lighter-weight non-wine version can be
done. 'Lazy' apps that need the WndProc hooks can use the Wine
version. 'Clean' apps can use the simpler cleaner faster(?)
Qt/GTK+ mono.
My 2 cents,
Tyler Wilson
From: "Greg Brown" <gbrown@molecular.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:52:56 -0500
>> What's the point of .NET on Linux if it won't run .NET apps?
>> Surely 100% is the goal - if Mono can't take advantage of all
>> the programs that are being or will be written for .NET, why
>> would anyone install Mono? There'll always be faster native
>> code compilers, better windowing toolkits for specific tasks,
>> better languages for specific domains, and so on. I thought
>> Mono was there to bring about a common platform
independent
>> of the OS and programming language.
>
>I guess we have different goals for Mono, and specifically
WinForms on
>Mono. I envision Mono/WinForms as the successor to Java on
the desktop.
>Like Java, .NET has the potential to become a vehicle for
deploying
>cross-platform applications. Unlike Java, Microsoft is not going to
do
>everything it can to prevent it from succeeding.
>
>In Java, while it is possible to write code that makes calls to
native
>APIs, it is generally not necessary, and is often discouraged. The
JDK
>was designed to minimize or eliminate the need to do so for all
but the
>most performance-intensive tasks. The .NET framework is
similarly
>designed, which leads me to believe that the development
philosophy
>would also be similar. Basing the fundamental design of
Mono/WinForms on
>the need to support a particular platform-specific API (e.g. COM)
seems
>like it will just enable and encourage bad programming practice.
>
>Greg
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