[Mono-winforms-list] Windows Forms.
Simon Ask Ulsnes
simon@ulsnes.dk
Tue, 28 Jan 2003 16:09:05 +0100
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I just wanted to say that I have programmed a few controls for my SWF =
applications, none of them required low-level Win32 API functionality!
The ReleaseCapture/SendMessage combination (used to make things =
draggable) I think is the most commonly used, and it can easily be =
replaced by some event handlers doing their thing...
I have not yet come across a single Windows Control that needed API =
functions. If you know any, please let me know...
Besides, I think that programmers that want to achieve cross-platform =
compatibility can cope with the fact that there is no Win32 API on a =
non-Win32 platform, and find another solution. (maybe we could publish a =
document describing how to make your Win32 API-calls pure .NET? I think =
it is possible in most cases.)
Right now, I think it is important to start getting some work done. I =
really miss some more documentation on the Gtk#-classes so someone (me?) =
could start writing classes and functions that act similar to the =
original SWF classes, which will be able to run some basic HelloWorld =
programs, testing controls and so on. As I said before, the details can =
be done later.
And I still don't understand why it is not possible to write a Gtk# =
implementation that links to the WineLib when needed. Maybe I'm stupid? =
:-)
Yours sincerely,
Simon Ask Ulsnes, Denmark
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Greg Brown" <gbrown@molecular.com>
To: <mono-winforms-list@ximian.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Mono-winforms-list] Windows Forms.
> What's the point of .NET on Linux if it won't run .NET apps? =20
> Surely 100% is the goal - if Mono can't take advantage of all=20
> the programs that are being or will be written for .NET, why=20
> would anyone install Mono? There'll always be faster native=20
> code compilers, better windowing toolkits for specific tasks,=20
> better languages for specific domains, and so on. I thought=20
> Mono was there to bring about a common platform independent=20
> of the OS and programming language.
I guess we have different goals for Mono, and specifically WinForms on
Mono. I envision Mono/WinForms as the successor to Java on the desktop.
Like Java, .NET has the potential to become a vehicle for deploying
cross-platform applications. Unlike Java, Microsoft is not going to do
everything it can to prevent it from succeeding.
In Java, while it is possible to write code that makes calls to native
APIs, it is generally not necessary, and is often discouraged. The JDK
was designed to minimize or eliminate the need to do so for all but the
most performance-intensive tasks. The .NET framework is similarly
designed, which leads me to believe that the development philosophy
would also be similar. Basing the fundamental design of Mono/WinForms on
the need to support a particular platform-specific API (e.g. COM) seems
like it will just enable and encourage bad programming practice.
Greg
_______________________________________________
Mono-winforms-list maillist - Mono-winforms-list@lists.ximian.com
http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list
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<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>I just wanted to say that I have =
programmed a few=20
controls for my SWF applications, none of them required =
low-level Win32 API=20
functionality!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>The ReleaseCapture/SendMessage =
combination (used=20
to make things draggable) I think is the most commonly used, and it can =
easily=20
be replaced by some event handlers doing their thing...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>I have not yet come across a single =
Windows=20
Control that <EM>needed</EM> API functions. If you know any, please let =
me=20
know...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Besides, I think that programmers that =
want to=20
achieve cross-platform compatibility can cope with the fact that there =
<EM>is=20
no</EM> Win32 API on a non-Win32 platform, and find another =
solution.=20
(maybe we could publish a document describing how to make your Win32 =
API-calls=20
pure .NET? I think it is possible in most cases.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Right now, I think it is important to =
start=20
getting some work done. I really miss some more documentation on the=20
Gtk#-classes so someone (me?) could start writing classes and functions =
that act=20
similar to the original SWF classes, which will be able to run some =
basic=20
HelloWorld programs, testing controls and so on. As I said before, the =
details=20
can be done later.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>And I still don't understand why it is =
not=20
possible to write a Gtk# implementation that links to the WineLib =
when=20
needed. Maybe I'm stupid? :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Yours sincerely,<BR>Simon Ask Ulsnes,=20
Denmark</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>From: "Greg Brown" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:gbrown@molecular.com"><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>gbrown@molecular.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>To: <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:mono-winforms-list@ximian.com"><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>mono-winforms-list@ximian.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:52=20
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Subject: RE: [Mono-winforms-list] =
Windows=20
Forms.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DTahoma><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>> What's the point of .NET on Linux if it won't run .NET =
apps? =20
<BR>> Surely 100% is the goal - if Mono can't take advantage of all =
<BR>>=20
the programs that are being or will be written for .NET, why <BR>> =
would=20
anyone install Mono? There'll always be faster native <BR>> =
code=20
compilers, better windowing toolkits for specific tasks, <BR>> better =
languages for specific domains, and so on. I thought <BR>> Mono =
was=20
there to bring about a common platform independent <BR>> of the OS =
and=20
programming language.<BR><BR>I guess we have different goals for Mono, =
and=20
specifically WinForms on<BR>Mono. I envision Mono/WinForms as the =
successor to=20
Java on the desktop.<BR>Like Java, .NET has the potential to become a =
vehicle=20
for deploying<BR>cross-platform applications. Unlike Java, Microsoft is =
not=20
going to do<BR>everything it can to prevent it from =
succeeding.<BR><BR>In Java,=20
while it is possible to write code that makes calls to native<BR>APIs, =
it is=20
generally not necessary, and is often discouraged. The JDK<BR>was =
designed to=20
minimize or eliminate the need to do so for all but the<BR>most=20
performance-intensive tasks. The .NET framework is =
similarly<BR>designed, which=20
leads me to believe that the development philosophy<BR>would also be =
similar.=20
Basing the fundamental design of Mono/WinForms on<BR>the need to support =
a=20
particular platform-specific API (e.g. COM) seems<BR>like it will just =
enable=20
and encourage bad programming=20
practice.<BR><BR>Greg<BR>_______________________________________________<=
BR>Mono-winforms-list=20
maillist - </FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Mono-winforms-list@lists.ximian.com"><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>Mono-winforms-list@lists.ximian.com</FONT></A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list"><FON=
T=20
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-winforms-list</FON=
T></A></BODY></HTML>
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