AW: AW: [mono-vb] Development on MSVB library - EX "VB Class status"

Jochen Wezel jwezel@compumaster.de
Thu, 15 Jul 2004 12:52:45 +0200 

Hi Rafael!

You're right, sorry! The modules are working perfectly, they can't be =
better :) I was at the wrong train...

> >Maybe, it would be a great point to better compete against the =
original=20
> >since C# would allow often demanded features from the VB world ;-)
>=20
> I prefer to give a spin on my original idea, a multicompiler.
>=20
> Mbas can accept many languages, besides VB.NET/MonoBASIC, It's a =
plugggable=20
> architecture. So we can embed mcs classes in it and compile in the =
same=20
> assembly code in C# and VB.NET, so it would be possible to keep the =
bigger=20
> part of MS.VB sources in C# and only the needed parts in VB.NET (we =
would=20
> need to implement "partial class" support from VB.NET 2.0 in mbas for =
that=20
> to work however)
My first itention was not to extend the mbas compiler with things it =
shouldn't do at the end: compiling C# scripts, too.
But, sure, we could also extend our mbas compiler in your suggested way. =
But I think there should be the need for a special parameter flag to =
activate the unofficial power extensions.

-Jochen

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: A Rafael D Teixeira [mailto:rafaelteixeirabr@hotmail.com]=20
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Juli 2004 15:13
An: Jochen Wezel; Mono-vb@lists.ximian.com; =
rafael.teixeirabr@terra.com.br
Betreff: RE: AW: [mono-vb] Development on MSVB library - EX "VB Class =
status"

>From: "Jochen Wezel" <jwezel@compumaster.de>
>
>To warm up the soap, again: Eventually it is a mad idea, but let's see=20
>your feedback...
>
>Our current major unsolved problems for MSVB library is=20
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>- no support of optional parameters in MSC

This is so far true. I could not find a way of doing it in C#, yet.

>- no support of modules in MSC

This is not true. Vb modules are just classes restricted to have only =
static methods and tagged with the StandardModuleAttribute, so we have =
all modules OK in our C# implementation.

>- the guys developing MSC don't want to include anything which would=20
>help us in these 2 topics

We need some help only with the first issue. The second one is already a =
no issue, but when the mcs compiler stabilizes to C# 2.0, we can adapt =
to use the new static class construct that already verifies that no =
instance methods are allowed.

>The current "solution" would be to rewrite the complete library again=20
>if the MBAS compiler has got a fine status for this task.

Not yet.

>Now, my idea:
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Is it possible to create a new compiler based on MSC which only extends =

>it for support of the required features?

Yes, but we nevertheless need approval from the Mono core team for such =
a beast.

>Maybe, it would be a great point to better compete against the original =

>since C# would allow often demanded features from the VB world ;-)

I prefer to give a spin on my original idea, a multicompiler.

Mbas can accept many languages, besides VB.NET/MonoBASIC, It's a =
plugggable architecture. So we can embed mcs classes in it and compile =
in the same assembly code in C# and VB.NET, so it would be possible to =
keep the bigger part of MS.VB sources in C# and only the needed parts in =
VB.NET (we would need to implement "partial class" support from VB.NET =
2.0 in mbas for that to work however)

>-Jochen

Open for opinions...

Have fun,


Rafael "Monoman" Teixeira
Mono Hacker since 16 Jul 2001 - http://www.go-mono.org/ MonoBrasil =
Founding Member - Membro Fundador do MonoBrasil =
http://monobrasil.softwarelivre.org
English Blog: http://monoblog.blogspot.com/ Brazilian Portuguese Blog: =
http://monoblog.weblogger.terra.com.br/




>
>
>-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com =
[mailto:mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com]=20
>Im Auftrag von Rob.Tillie@Student.tUL.EDU
>Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Juni 2004 12:47
>An: s.blomfield@cox.net; Mono-vb@lists.ximian.com
>Betreff: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
>
>Hey Scott,
>
>The compiler is written in C#, but you could start to help with just =
trying=20
>to compile your VB.NET programs with our compiler, and report any =
problems,=20
>ideally with test cases that show the problem :).
>This way the compiler should come forth a lot quicker...
>
>Greetz,
>-- Rob.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Scott Blomfield [mailto:s.blomfield@cox.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 11:57 PM
> > To: Mono-vb@lists.ximian.com
> > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> >
> > Of course. Doing something unhelpful would be ... Silly =3D)
> >
> > I was just letting folks know if it comes to pass that any part of =
the
> > compiler is written in VB.NET then shoot me an email, not suggesting =
a
> > revolution. The project has come very far under their excellent
> > leadership and support, and I am certain that without it the project
> > would falter and come along much slower if at all.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com
> > [mailto:mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rob.Tillie@Student.tUL.EDU
> > Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:03 AM
> > To: s.blomfield@cox.net; Mono-vb@lists.ximian.com
> > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > The porting isn't the problem. Surely there's some convert tool from
> > C#
> > --> VB.NET. The problem is getting MBAS (Our VB.NET compiler) in a
> > production-ready state so it can compile MS.VB.dll during build.
> > I'm in favor of doing the right thing now, but this decision isn't =
up
> > to us. Let's wait and hear what the leaders (Rafael, Jambunathan,
> > Banirban,
> > etc.) have to say, and point us in the direction they want to take.
> >
> > Greetz,
> > -- Rob.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Blomfield [mailto:s.blomfield@cox.net]
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 5:28 AM
> > > To: Mono-vb@lists.ximian.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> > >
> > > At this point in time I also would be able to assist in either
> > > porting
> >
> > > code from C# to VB.NET or writing code from scratch in VB.NET.
> > > Unfortunately my native C# code is not up to scratch to contribute
> > > new
> >
> > > code though.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com
> > > [mailto:mono-vb-admin@lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Gregg
> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 8:33 AM
> > > To: Rob.Tillie@Student.tUL.EDU
> > > Cc: mono-vb@lists.ximian.com; mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, I'm certainly willing to help.  I've got a lot of experience
> > > in programming both VB.NET and C#, and would be glad to do =
whatever
> > > I can
> >
> > > to help.  Of course, having a legion of VB developers won't do us
> > > any good if the build system isn't up to the task yet.  What will =
it
> > > take to get this working?
> > >
> > > I know that it would take a while to rebuild everything in VB, =
even
> > > just porting the C# code will take a while.  However, it seems =
like
> > > a worthwhile cause to do this so as to not pollute the C# compiler
> > > or language with constructions necessary to create the VisualBasic
> > > namespace.
> > >
> > > Additionally it would create a sample library of VisualBasic code,
> > > and
> >
> > > probably provide a lot of feedback to the people working on the VB
> > > compiler, to ensure that all the issues are worked out.
> > >
> > > Ryan Gregg
> > > Intellidev
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rob.Tillie@Student.tUL.EDU =
[mailto:Rob.Tillie@Student.tUL.EDU]
> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:25 AM
> > > To: Ryan Gregg
> > > Cc: mono-vb@lists.ximian.com; mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> > >
> > >  The problem is I guess that more people on this list program in =
C#
> > > rather then VB. Another problem is that the build system isn't =
ready
> > > yet to build VB.NET dll's, as MBAS is not quit ready. Besides that
> > > it would take some time to rewrite everything to VB. I helped a =
bit
> > > in the implementation, but I don't know enough VB to program in =
it.
> > >
> > > Greetz,
> > > -- Rob.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ryan Gregg
> > > Cc: mono-vb@lists.ximian.com; mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
> > > Sent: 25-6-04 7:37
> > > Subject: RE: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> > >
> > > Wouldn't it just make more sense to implement the VB namespace in =
its
> > > own language?   That's the approach Microsoft took when developing =
it,
> > > and granted it might be some porting work from this point since =
the
> > > class was already started in C#, but I think in the long run it
> > > would be a wiser decision.
> > >
> > > For all we know, there might be future changes in the future that
> > > may require other VB specific features to properly compile that we
> > > would have to create custom exceptions for or otherwise modify how
> > > the IL is
> >
> > > generated from the source code.  It seems better in my view at =
least
> > > to hedge against this possible condition and implement the library
> > > in VB.
> > >
> > > Ryan Gregg
> > > Intellidev
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mono-devel-list-admin@lists.ximian.com
> > > [mailto:mono-devel-list-admin@lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of Raja =
R
> > > Harinath
> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 12:03 AM
> > > To: A Rafael D Teixeira
> > > Cc: mono-vb@lists.ximian.com; mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Mono-devel-list] Re: [mono-vb] VB Class status
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > "A Rafael D Teixeira" <rafaelteixeirabr@hotmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > Kudos Raja, you went right to the point.
> > > >
> > > > The problem is (besides the MonoTODO) that if C# doesn't have =
the
> > > syntax
> > > > to support it, we may have to rewrite part, or the whole, of our
> > > library
> > > > in VB.NET, or put an option in mcs to specifically allow such
> > > extension
> > > > of syntax (Miguel probably wouldn't like that).
> > >
> > > If it is just for us to implement Microsoft.VisualBasic in C#, we
> > > probably don't need a special syntax for this.  We can have an
> > > internal attribute named
> > >
> > >   Microsoft.VisualBasic.Mono__DefaultValueAttribute
> > >
> > > And either 'mcs' or ParameterBuilder.SetCustomAttribute() can =
handle
> > > this specially.  However, it won't work with CSC -- I don't see =
that
> > > as a major problem, though.
> > >
> > > If you want to provide a general facility for expressing this CIL
> > > capability in C#, then, yeah -- it's a problem :-)
> > >
> > > - Hari
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mono-devel-list mailing list
> > > Mono-devel-list@lists.ximian.com
> > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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