[Mono-list] Ubuntu

Wed Aug 11 19:00:23 EDT 2010

After looking at the go-mono.com site closer, I would suggest the following:

On download page, there is a "other" (linux tm image) link/button,
that then bring up  another line of 

----------------------------------------------------------------
2. Mono for Unsupported or Community-Supported Distribution

Novell does not offer support for your distribution. A number of distributions are supported by their own communities instead. Please select your platform below:

Debian

Ubuntu

Other
------------------------------------------------------------------

I would propose (dealing just with Ubuntu in this discussion) have Ubuntu listed as "Community-Supported",
and not tied to the "Unsupported" banner. As well, have it always display (rather then
switched into the page only when the "other" is selected).

Also perhaps adding in "Ubuntu derived i.e. Mint, Kubuntu, etc." 
as a further descriptor under the link.

Then when it goes to the Ubuntu specific page, all the warnings and explanation can stay. 
It then forwards off to badgerports.org, where I would suggest (to Joe), that this become more 
of an official page (or change the domain and create new site, i.e. go-mono-ubuntu.com, etc).
This all under the condition the effort/results meets the mono community definition of a 
"Community-Supported" distro. I am not sure what that condition is however, but I assume it has 
to do with showing a history of support from member of the community, and that it generally works.

Assuming this could happen, it then leaves the questions of who does this distro package 
(Joe should get help) [ I'd love to help, and I assume there are others], and, 
how is the badgerports (or new) domain funded/hosted (does the mono community as a whole, and/or 
Novell help with this)? Maybe this could be hosted off of the Mint domain as well, probably should be
hosted at two places for redundancy.
Just my 0.02 

tl

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:32:52 +1200
Daniel Hughes <trampster at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the
> "offical" ubuntu PPA.
> 
> However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the
> download page.
> The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to
> ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made
> and that it was stable.
> 
> It that was to happen I would be a happy man :)
> 
> (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again)
> 
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu <stifu at free.fr> wrote:
> >
> > I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for
> > Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people
> > keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu.
> > Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to
> > Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're
> > ready, compared to the other builds.
> >
> >
> > ted leslie wrote:
> >>
> >> I had the same questions you had.
> >> I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32),
> >> and Mint is very
> >> pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it
> >> has lessor issue with
> >> licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember
> >> correctly)
> >> moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that
> >> are not normally on other distros.
> >> I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am
> >> hoping I can assist in
> >> that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
> >> I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see
> >> Miguel's and other posts).
> >>
> >> It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these
> >> and support them,
> >> BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting
> >> Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
> >> (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community,
> >> there by getting a huge
> >> return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I
> >> do see it as odd.
> >> However, there needs to be community,
> >> and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can
> >> handle the task (in the case
> >> of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu
> >> being so huge, and statistically
> >> speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the
> >> task of its own repos for Mono.
> >>
> >> This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can
> >> build the Ubuntu/Mint
> >> packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for
> >> developers with the latest and greatest).
> >> It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know
> >> about badger ports, I trust it, so I
> >> install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust
> >> aspect, to cater to the
> >> most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or
> >> the domain of the
> >> distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain,
> >> so that leaves go-mono.com
> >> (and its aliases), but "hosting" a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that
> >> involves ......?
> >> This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the
> >> opensuse site, so one
> >> get the "official" feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some
> >> domain that technically could
> >> be (but usual unlikely) rogue.
> >>
> >> So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better
> >> ubuntu/mint support ....
> >> assuming its there, where can the PPA "officially" be housed for the
> >> paranoid (and rightfully so)
> >> consumer? Also, in it being "officially" housed, it also then benefits by
> >> that exposure, that is
> >> it has become "official", its were people will naturally look for it,
> >> which has brought us around
> >> full circle.
> >>
> >> tl
> >>
> >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200
> >> Daniel Hughes <trampster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
> >>> ubuntu 10.04? no
> >>> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
> >>> with ubuntu? yes
> >>>
> >>> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
> >>> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
> >>> viable.
> >>>
> >>> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
> >>> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
> >>> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
> >>>
> >>> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
> >>> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
> >>> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
> >>> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
> >>> runs on .net and not on mono.
> >>>
> >>> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
> >>> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
> >>> on windows?
> >>>
> >>> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
> >>> run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?
> >>>
> >>> So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
> >>> that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
> >>> ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
> >>> the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
> >>> if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
> >>> openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell.... interesting
> >>> how that works....
> >>>
> >>> I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
> >>> interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the
> >>> badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite
> >>> interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link
> >>> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/
> >>>
> >>> Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there
> >>> in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what
> >>> we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face.
> >>>
> >>> Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no.
> >>> Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by
> >>> giving it the big middle finger.
> >>>
> >>> Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default.
> >>> And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class
> >>> support.
> >>>
> >>> It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
> >>>
> >>> (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in
> >>> gmail replies to the sender not the list.)
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic <severedcross at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?
> >>> >
> >>> > On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes" <trampster at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
> >>> > We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
> >>> > etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
> >>> > mono team.
> >>> >
> >>> > That is all.
> >>> >
> >>> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic
> >>> <severedcross at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ted leslie <tleslie at tcn.net>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-tp2318791p2321890.html
> > Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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-- 
ted leslie <tleslie at tcn.net>