[Mono-list] Gnome and Kde and how the mono project works with them .......

[Jonathan Pryor]

On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 22:00 -0400, ted leslie wrote:
> I have just recently run in to a gtk-sharp issue on
> a kde desktop. Went to gnome on the same machine, and all is fine.

It would be useful to know what the issue is.  The goal is to allow
desktop-agnostic applications, by using freedesktop.org standards when
possible.  (This isn't always possible, such as with theme changes and
file & print dialogs, but the apps should work properly, even if they
don't form a coherent whole...)

> Since I am doing everything now in mono/gtk# on Linux (for these clients),
> (now) and  in time want to have the most optimum desktop environment
> for these people,
> is it correct to say I should obviously be switching to Gnome
> based on the Mono project direction? 

As Harry Holt mentioned, you should choose whichever environment is best
suited for your users.  Re-training them may not be cost effective.

Plus, it's always possible that someone will write a Qt# binding layer
to allow better KDE interop.

> If anyone were to guess..what percentage of mono lead developers/maintainers
> use gnome  vs. kde?

100% Gnome, AFAIK (though it would help to define "lead developers").

However, it should be noted that most of mono doesn't depend on Gnome or
KDE -- XML, File I/O, everything that isn't GUI-related is completely
desktop agnostic, so it doesn't matter that lupus (JIT guy
extraordinaire) is running Gnome or FLTK or FluxBox, as the JIT doesn't
change on any of those.

With that being said, all Mono-related Novell-funded resources are going
into Gtk# and System.Windows.Forms, not Qt#.  (Which isn't to say that
KDE isn't getting any resources from Novell, just no resources that are
Mono-related, from what I've seen.)

> As far as I gather, mono/gtk# app. will work fine on both desktops
> but with gnome there will be synergy amongst apps (i.e. drag on to)
> that KDE will not have? And if this is the case, anyone thought about
> that type of support for KDE?

Drag-and-drop should work.  Copy/paste should work.  If they don't work,
then someone isn't adhering to the relevant freedesktop.org standards.

What will differ?  Themes, dialog boxes, HIG conventions (Mac-style
[Cancel][Save] button layout vs. Windows [OK][Cancel] button layout),
and more.

Will those differences matter?  It depends on the training your users
receive.  For example, Microsoft Office tends to have different widgets
and conventions than every other Windows app, yet it does very well. :-)

Training can make up for a lot.  Don't underestimate its importance.

Don't underestimate the harm of Change for Changes sake, either.  Many
users don't like change.

> Is there perhaps maybe a bit of hidden politics at work here too?
> but I find it odd ... Novell bought SUSE, Novell funds mono (to some extent),
> suse distro's default to KDE do they not? (pretty sure 9.0/9.1/9.2 do)?

The missing piece is that Novell bought Ximian, which originally
developed Mono and is a big Gnome developer.

>From the outside, Novell seems to be supporting both Gnome and KDE, but
as far as Mono is concerned Gnome is getting all the support.

> Since we see Novell funding mono, owning SUSE, and talk of how tight
> Gnome and mono may become .... what is the outlook/piture of KDE in the future.

You'd have to ask the KDE developers that, and I'm sure they feel the
future of KDE is bright.  Whether they see Mono in their future is
another matter, and whether Mono is part of Gnome's future will cause
flame wars for years to come. :-)

 - Jon