[Mono-list] Decent IDE for ASP.NET development?

Preston Crawford me@prestoncrawford.com
Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:24:12 -0700

On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 01:27, Todd Berman wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-10-12 at 06:19 -0700, me wrote:
> > 
> > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Todd Berman wrote:
> > 
> > > > application. The main problem being that in Monodevelop every folder and 
> > > > file has to be added to the project from the menu.
> > > 
> > > Ok, uhm, i dont understand why this is a problem. MonoDevelop cant just
> > > guess what your files are.
> > 
> > But other IDEs aren't trying to manage their own separate filesystem. 
> > Eclipse, as an example, is far different. If you're doing web development, 
> > as I mentioned earlier, you often need to just throw a new directory or 
> > some images into the same directory as the rest of your projct. Often this 
> > will be because it's all part of one big CVS checkout, right. Eclipse will 
> > pickup these filesystem changes and if you do a refresh they're suddenly 
> > in the project directory. No needing to add them from a window. So, 
> > frankly, I'm not used to that behavior, nor do I think it's optimal. 
> > Additionally I've noticed that sometimes if I add a file or folder, if I 
> > then delete it it will show as deleted, but actually still exist in the 
> > filesystem. This is odd behavior to me.
> >  
> I see what you mean, but then you would get random stuff, like temporary
> files, or build cruft, or random stuff you arent interested in in your
> project as well. Is that desired?

Of course not. But other IDEs (take a look at IDEA I believe Eclipse)
just filter these files out. They filter .hidden files out on Unix and
they filter out CVS directories as just a matter of course. So I've
never found that to be a problem with other IDEs.

> > > >  You can't just copy 
> > > > some images or an image directory into a folder. It's meant to deal with 
> > > > source. 
> > > 
> > > As opposed to what? allowing you to add a image file to the project? I
> > > believe that a) this is possible today b) doesnt serve much of a point.
> > 
> > Well, if you're doing a web development project, having an image as part 
> > of your project DOES serve much of a point. 
> > 
> Only in the sense of deployment, and considering we don't really deal
> with deployment (either generic, or web deployment) yet, it is
> relatively moot at this time.

I suppose. The way I was trying to use Monodevelop was for a quick site
I was building. So I wanted to throw everything in the same directory so
I could run XSP right out of that directory. Having to run a build on a 
few code-behind classes isn't really optimal for my situation. Thus the
reason why I asked about IDEs that fit my particular situation.

> > > > And even then it doesn't seem to handle integrating its view of a 
> > > > project with the filesystem (like Eclipse does, for example).
> > > 
> > > Explain exactly what that means, because where I'm sitting (and I use
> > > MonoDevelop every day for 8 hours a day) it absolutely integrates its
> > > view of a project with the filesystem.
> > 
> > What I mean is if I copy a directory into my project folder I can't see 
> > it via MonoDevelop. It's not there. This is different behavior than I'm 
> > used to with other IDEs.
> >  
> I am not sure, but I believe vs.net works in the same way.

If it works that way for web projects I think that would be a break from
the past.

> > > MyProjectFolder/src/SomeFolder/SomeOtherFile.cs
> > > I have this in MonoDevelop:
> > > 
> > > MyProject
> > > > src
> > >  > SomeFile.cs
> > >  > SomeFolder
> > >   > SomeOtherFile.cs
> > > 
> > > and on my filesystem I have
> > 
> > Right. Probably because you put them there. But what if you just copied a 
> > directory into your project folder. Would you be able to see it in 
> > Monodevelop? I don't in my copy.
> > 
> Yup, I added the files and directories I am interested in.
> As miguel said, it would be trivial to write code that watches your
> directories and automatically adds files to the project, but is that
> really the best option?

No. I think the best option is to find an IDE for Linux that does mono,
but looks at a project like a folder in which your files exist and not
as some filesystem on top of a filesystem, which is where problems like
mine begin.

> I store random files that I am not interested in seeing in my project
> inside the project folder.
> Also, when MD integrates with revision control, this behaviour becomes
> sub-optimal as well. You don't want stuff like that automatically
> 'added' and at the same time, you do want your project to accurately
> represent your revision control repository, because in theory (or
> reality) whatever you are storing in revision control is most likely
> something you are interested in working with.

Yes, but what happens when some day you want to add an image or a Flash
file, things that people have to do in real life, to the project.
There's no facility for that, save for what I was trying to do, copying
the file to the directory. There has to be a way, if it's ever to be
used for ASP.NET development, to handle the diversity of files
(properties files, xml files, images, swf files, etc.) that gets thrown
into a web app.

> I am totally up for ideas on how to work all this out, and any patch
> work would be reviewed, and commented upon (and most likely accepted). I
> would prefer to see some discussion about potential pros/cons of
> automatically adding files to your project, and other points I brought
> up here.

I don't disagree. I wasn't attempting to redirect the focus of
monodevelop when I posted what I posted. I was simply looking for other
IDE options. 

> However, this discussion should take place on the monodevelop-list
> (which is accessible through the lists.ximian.com website).