[Mono-list] Re: mono-hackers --> mono-devel-list

Paolo Molaro lupus@ximian.com
Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:00:50 +0100

On 02/03/03 Adam Treat wrote:
> You said, 'policy for inclusion is very easy: do something for mono' ... if this were the case
> then I would be included.  This is not the case.  So when you say that is the 'policy' and you
> also acknowledge that I've 'done something for mono' ... hence the inevitable question 'then why
> am I not on the list'?

Because the default is to trust people, so it's very easy to get in.
Later trust in you was lost, for whatever reason, so you were excluded
from a list whose members we trust.

> > dotgnu-2002-11-03.log:
> > [07:23] <t3rmin4t0r> we could use other licenses outside pnetlib
> > [07:23] <t3rmin4t0r> or fork mono's System.Xml
> > [07:23] <manyoso> well, mono's System.Xml is X11 so we should be able to
> > relicense it with GPL+Linking
> dotgnu-2002-11-25.log:
> [09:43] <manyoso> when it does work, i think we should maintain it in pnet's cvs and mail patches
> back and forth alla the i8ln libs

You have been removed from the list on 2002-11-20, after two weeks of
pondering. These logs are after that, so they could not be used as a
basis for a different judgement at the time:-)

> this was settled and I dropped it completely.  I am only asking for Miguel to follow through.  The
> initial email that sparked this thread was a simple, 'Hey, what's up with mono-devel'?

What makes you think a mail on mono-list would have had more effect that
a private mail? I'll tell you an important secret address:
miguel@ximian.com :-)

> > > In fact, Miguel has publicly stated that Portable.NET, DotGNU, Rotor, Intel, 
> > > Evil Company are all welcome to work on and use Mono's class libraries (this 
> > 
> > The license allows that. The license doesn't allow them to pretend to
> > have access to the mono-hackers list.
> Whaahhh?  I have no idea what you are trying to say here.  Once again, I am not asking for access
> to Ximian secrets or 'confidential information'.  You've asked that I not misrepresent your views
> and I would kindly ask the same.

It was an example to point out that anyone would have been removed from 
mono-hackers if they intended to do harm to the mono project, no matter
the license of the assemblies. Forking the code does harm the project.

> > If I lost your trust, let me know privately what I should do to gain it
> > back (hey, if you ever travel near Venice or Padua here in
> > Italy, be sure to send me mail and we'll share a bottle of wine:-).
> > If you have similar issues with someone else in the project, do it
> > privately, a public mailing list is not the best medium for settling
> > personal issues. If you can't reconcile the positions, ignore
> > some people and carry on with your contributions, like many people do
> > in large projects.
> I was just responding to what you said about how I should 'do something' to gain trust.  It is
> difficult to not take this personally.  

When I said we expected you to do something to regain the trust it was
because I (and I'm sure miguel, too) would love to have you working
together with us again. You should start taking it personally if I send
you a mail with "banner f*ck off |mail " ... ;-)

> Fine.  Once again, I am not looking for access to any confidential information.  I just think the
> mono development discussion should take place in an open forum as we have all agreed.  I don't

A mono-devel mailing list was already in the plans for a long time.
It hasn't been done because it's not a priority: most of the
non-confidential technical discussions happen on mono-list anyway
or on IRC. Anyway, the list will be announced soon, hopefully that will
put an end to this thread:-)

> Thank you for your nice invitation.  Next time you visit Boston I'd like to extend the same
> invitation :-)



lupus@debian.org                                     debian/rules
lupus@ximian.com                             Monkeys do it better