[Mono-dev] Mono and vNext, What is microsoft supporting

Miguel de Icaza miguel at xamarin.com
Wed Nov 5 16:40:32 UTC 2014

Right, this kind of assembly support is something that we should adopt at
some point, but it will require some major changes to do this.

Alex is right, for now this should be considered equivalent to the full
.net stack, not the split version of it.

Btw, it seems from the live webcasts that (a) they dislike strongnaming and
(b) they have not really solved the versioning problem for third parties.

So there are elements of the baby that are being thrown with the bath water.

On Wednesday, November 5, 2014, Alexander Köplinger <
alex.koeplinger at outlook.com> wrote:

> Well the issue with the NuGet-based BCL libraries like System.Console is
> that the actual implementation still depends on Windows internals, e.g.
> a very quick peak with a decompiler on the new System.Console NuGet library
> reveals dozens of DllImport("api-ms-win-core-file-l1-1-0.dll")
> and corresponding P/Invokes. I can't see how that would work on other
> platforms.
> The things they're testing with Mono is akin to their support for the
> "full" Desktop .NET framework, which is a different story than CoreCLR.
> -- Alex
> ------------------------------
> From: monoman at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','monoman at gmail.com');>
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:57:11 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and vNext, What is microsoft supporting
> To: monoforum at my2cents.co.uk
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','monoforum at my2cents.co.uk');>;
> alex.koeplinger at outlook.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alex.koeplinger at outlook.com');>
> CC: mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com');>
> As I follow the github discussions in some of the asp.net vnext
> subprojects, I see them testing on Mono (in MacOS X) as part of the
> development process, but yet some things are lagging a bit... :)
> On Wed Nov 05 2014 at 9:43:28 AM Martin Thwaites <monoforum at my2cents.co.uk
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','monoforum at my2cents.co.uk');>> wrote:
> So, after thinking about this further.  The question I have is not really
> about CoreCLR.
> What I want to know is, the libraries that Microsoft are making available
> via their nuget (myget at the moment), are these going to be tested again
> .net, mono and CoreCLR? I.e will the libraries be cross platform?
> Thanks
> Martin
>  I just asked about CoreCLR on Linux during today's ASP.NET vNext
> community standup and the answer was:
> "CoreCLR runs on Windows. On Linux you use Mono." (ASP.NET Community
> Standup - Nov 4th, 2014 - LIVE from the MVP Summit
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oafQVI4Lx4#t=706>)
> That should clarify it pretty much :)
> -- Alex
> > From: alex.koeplinger at outlook.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','alex.koeplinger at outlook.com');>
> > To: monoforum at my2cents.co.uk
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','monoforum at my2cents.co.uk');>;
> mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com');>
> > Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2014 21:52:59 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [Mono-dev] Mono and vNext, What is microsoft supporting
> >
> > Note: the following is based on discussions with David Fowler (one of
> the MS devs) et.al. in JabbR and other places. I'm not part of MS/vNext
> team or Xamarin, so I may be totally wrong :)
> >
> >
> >
> > >> "CoreCLR is intended to be Windows-only too from what I've heard, as
> it doesn't make much sense for Mono (you can already do side-by-side
> deployment of Mono)."
> > > Where have you seen this, do you have a link you can send? This is a
> major missing piece of the puzzle for me. I've been hoping that with vNext,
> applications would be truely cross platform, but it seems we are still very
> much reliant on Mono's class implementations.
> > > I've read an article[1] that says the CoreCLR ("Cloud Optimized") is
> to be "Cross Platform". If that is the case, and there are no plans to make
> a linux compatible version and just use mono, they could easily say the
> same about the .NET 4.5 class libraries as they are available in mono.
> >
> >
> > You should keep in mind that CoreCLR is just that - another runtime
> implementation (they based this off of the old Silverlight runtime which
> was side-by-side deployable). What they now put on top is the class
> libraries distributed via NuGet, resulting in this self-contained
> experience. As I said, it's just one of the options alongside .NET CLR and
> Mono CLR, like this picture from your article shows:
> http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-00-84-75-metablogapi/7356.image_5F00_70B63F1D.png
> (the article never says the CoreCLR is cross-platform, just the vNext
> application itself)
> >
> >
> > > So either, when Microsoft refer to "Cross platform", they are only
> referring to applications that rely on no class libraries and only corlib
> (is that a thing can an application be purely reliant on no class
> libraries?). Alternatively, they are relying on Mono to create a CoreCLR (I
> wouldn't be surprised if they've ask for Xamarin's help in doing that).
> >
> >
> > The end result should be that you can run your app on .NET, CoreCLR and
> Mono and the app doesn't care. The problem with the web frameworks like MVC
> etc. up until now was that they were tightly coupled to System.Web, which
> is not open-source and very difficult to reimplement in Mono (and to be
> honest likely also lagged behind because Xamarin's focus is on mobile). The
> new vNext stacks don't rely on System.Web anymore and just use the basic
> class libraries that are well implemented on Mono too (like corlib,
> System.Net etc. as they're important to Xamarin). It should be a much much
> better experience given that Microsoft actively tests the vNext stack on
> Mono. Now if **your** application code relies on something that isn't
> implemented on Mono then that's a problem, sure.
> >
> >
> > > I am aware that you can side-by-side in mono, however, I thought that
> one of the other big benefits of vNext was the reduction in footprint,
> specifically around the memory footprint per request. So you can opt-in/out
> of specific features.
> >
> >
> > Maybe they'll make this whole CoreCLR/small-footprint - experience
> available on other OSs as well, but from what I've heard this is targeted
> at Windows for now.
> >
> >
> > -- Alex
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