[Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
Bas Westerbaan
bas.westerbaan at gmail.com
Sat Jun 25 10:25:01 EDT 2005
Seems I confused the definition :-/. Anyway, now I am thinking about it is
very possible Sony will allow linux to be installed on it to gain more
support for the Cell architecture before trying to get to the main frames or
even work stations.
It seems there is a lot shifting in the processor world, and CLI's will fit
in nicely :-).
I agree, it is a great time now
On 6/25/05, Peter De Jager <peterdj at telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> I wasn't really comparing Blue Gene/L to Cell, but rather the floating
> point performance of Blue Gene/L to the floating point performance of PS3.
> And teraflops (*Floating* Point Operations Per Second) are by definition
> floating point arithmetic ;-). But you are right, I shouldn't have compared
> a PS3 to a Blue Gene with 435 processors. And most certainly it will be more
> than 75 times faster than PS3 in real world applications. Still, I find the
> floating point performance of PS3 impressive.
> Graphics cards for normal PC's haven't yet reached teraflops ratings. The
> fastest current hardware is the (just released) nVidia GeForce 7800 GTX
> (approx. $600), which boasts (according to nVidia) 200 gigaflops of shader
> performance, i.e. only 1/5 the fp performance of Xbox (1 teraflops) and
> only 1/9 the fp performance of PS3 (1.8 teraflops).
> I think one of the main driving forces behind Cell (apart from its
> multi-core architecture and speed) is its configurability. Predictions are
> that in time we will find these processors in everything from cell phones to
> mainframes (very diverse). We'll have to wait and see, but I think it will
> do well.
> But in the end, yes, the future is looking bright. Great time to be a
> developer ;-)
> Pete.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:
> mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com] *On Behalf Of *Bas Westerbaan
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2005 15:29
> *To:* Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
>
> I'm quite sure that the Blue Gene/L would blow away the Cell processor
> with more than the 75 times you predict. Floating Point calculation
> certainly isn't the bottleneck of a computers performance.
>
> Although there wasn't mentioned that the amount of teraflops of the Blue
> Gene/L was of the floating point arithmatics.
>
> Doubling memory performance would increase the total performance a lot
> more than doubling the floating point power, even with those supercomputers
> that would rely heavily on floating point computation.
>
> I wonder how many teraflops there have been in the graphics cards for
> normal PC's.
>
> I remain a bit sceptical, for if the cell processors really were that
> enourmously impressive then we would have found them used in supercomputers
> and servers first instead of a game console.
>
> Although the cell processors are at the start of a new architecture which
> could vastly improve. Whereas the 686 can't do anything but put more in one
> processor to increase performance (dual cores are just a way to keep up with
> the rest). I guess that there will be other new processor architectures of
> other vendors sooner or later.
>
> With all those new architectures coming, CLI's certainly will have a
> bright future :-)
>
> ------------------------------
> > *From:* mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:
> > mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com] *On Behalf Of *Bas Westerbaan
> > *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2005 13:45
> > *To:* Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> >
> > I wonder what the price and the effective 'normal' computing power of
> > the Ps3 will be. I guess it will be optimised for graphics which would
> > render it useless for normal server usage, although clustering for a big
> > supercomputer would be great, as I guess Sony will intend to use their Cell
> > processor for too.
> >
> > It is rumored that the XBox 360 Cpu contains (semi)native support for
> > the CLI (.net). It wouldn't supprise me, for there are processors running
> > Java. And it would also fit in the marketing strategy of microsoft to let
> > .net gain more ground.
> >
> >
> > On 6/25/05, Peter De Jager <peterdj at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > My understanding is similar. PS3 is a platform on which other OS's can
> > > run, including Linux, but Linux is not the native OS of PS3. Sony said that
> > > there is no reason why Windows or OS X won't run on it (if the vendors
> > > wanted it to), but they (Sony) will only supply Linux (because they can).
> > > They also said that perhaps a new OS may be developed for it. I don't know
> > > if this means that they are looking at doing it, or whether they are just
> > > speculating. Either way, it will be good for Mono if apps run on PS3 in
> > > addition to Windows, Linux, and OS X. I think it's fairly certain that MS's
> > > .NET won't run on any of the consoles.
> > > Pete.
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From:* mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:
> > > mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com] *On Behalf Of *Bas
> > > Westerbaan
> > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2005 13:00
> > > *To:* Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> > >
> > > If I understood it properly, sony is going to let you have linux on
> > > the PS3 on an additional harddisk, which could mean that they don't use it
> > > as their main OS for the Ps3 (or not at least the specific linux you
> > > install). It would be great if Sony used linux as main Os for Ps3, but that
> > > would also mean that it would be very possible to use Sony games on your own
> > > Pc. They can prevent it by making the Linux installation limited, which
> > > would go against the whole linux thing (and could prevent installing to
> > > exotic stuff like maybe mono).
> > >
> > > I guess time will tell once again
> > >
> > > On 6/25/05, Peter De Jager <peterdj at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's it. By far the fastest hardware for the price, both PS3 and
> > > > Xbox are heavily subsidised with money being made from games. The upside for
> > > > Sony is that even if people use it as a computer, they will probably end up
> > > > buying the games as well (having the console) so they still make money and
> > > > get a larger market share. Everyone is happy.
> > > > Pete.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > *From:* mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com [mailto:
> > > > mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com] *On Behalf Of *Bas
> > > > Westerbaan
> > > > *Sent:* Saturday, June 25, 2005 12:13
> > > > *To:* Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> > > >
> > > > I guess that the main benefit of using a PS3 would be the low price
> > > > of the hardware.
> > > >
> > > > It seems they make money by selling games and loose a bit by selling
> > > > the consoles.
> > > >
> > > > Try to buy the equivelent of the Xbox360 for the 400 dollars it will
> > > > probably cost at most.
> > > >
> > > > On 6/25/05, Peter De Jager < peterdj at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > That's really good news. With these kinds of workstations being
> > > > > released I
> > > > > think it's inevitable that Mono will be ported, which will mean
> > > > > that it will
> > > > > also run on PS3. Thanks for the info.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > [mailto:mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com] On Behalf Of
> > > > > Harry Holt
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 03:12
> > > > > To: Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> > > > >
> > > > > This http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20040512033325.html
> > > > >
> > > > > may be a little more interesting to work with that the PS3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 6/24/05, Bas Westerbaan <bas.westerbaan at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > > > > I think that the gaming platforms is all about hype. That they
> > > > > use the
> > > > > > capability of floating point calculation as the power of the
> > > > > platform
> > > > > > is an example of the supervisialness of the whole marketing
> > > > > campaign.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A good while after they are released there should be decent
> > > > > tests,
> > > > > > which will show exactly which of the platforms is best (for a
> > > > > purpose).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even though linux will run on the PS3 I wonder whether it will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > very customizable. And I also wonder whether Microsoft will ever
> > > > > be
> > > > > > able to stop people from cracking their protections. It may be
> > > > > harder
> > > > > > and take more time, but if their marketing campaign is right
> > > > > they
> > > > > > provide one of the cheapest amount of processing power per
> > > > > dollar.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Time will tell.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/24/05, Peter De Jager <peterdj at telkomsa.net > wrote:
> > > > > > > Well, I won't quite say "orders of magnitude". In floating
> > > > > point
> > > > > > > Xbox 360 provides (approx.) 1 teraflops while PS3 does 1.8.
> > > > > The cell
> > > > > > > processor does have multiple cores, but so does the PPC in
> > > > > Xbox.
> > > > > > > They should both be fantastic platforms but my pref would also
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > with PS3 ;-) and I don't see MS enabling Linux on Xbox anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Still, with Linux running on PS3, my question is whether Mono
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > run
> > > > > > too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > > > [mailto:mono-devel-list-bounces at lists.ximian.com ] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Harry Holt
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 22:07
> > > > > > > To: Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > > > > From: Harry Holt <harryholt at gmail.com>
> > > > > > > Date: Jun 24, 2005 1:18 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Mono-devel-list] Will Mono run on Playstation 3
> > > > > > > To: Bram Westerbaan < bram.westerbaan at gmail.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But I *do* want to use a PS3, because it will have *cell*
> > > > > > > processors,
> > > > > > which
> > > > > > > should bring cooperative computing to a whole new level. You
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > send off threads for processing to the SPUs for processing,
> > > > > and even
> > > > > > > utilize SPUs
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > other networked processors for ad-hoc distributed processing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I don't know what you mean about the Xbox2 being "just as
> > > > > fast".
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > PS3 should be orders of magnitude faster, given some careful
> > > > > > > consideration to OS optimization.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ... HH
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 6/24/05, Bram Westerbaan < bram.westerbaan at gmail.com >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > On 6/24/05, Peter De Jager <peterdj at telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is the Playstation 3 architecture (Power PC) similar
> > > > > enough to
> > > > > > > > > current Mac
> > > > > > > > CPU's to allow Mono to run on PS3? With 2 teraflops (!) and
> > > > > sony
> > > > > > > > announcing support for Linux, it will be great to be able to
> > > > > run
> > > > > > > > Mono on a supercomputer :-)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are there any plans for Mono on PS3?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > I do not know how it should be done. But I do know you don't
> > > > > want
> > > > > > > > to use a
> > > > > > > > PS3 when the Xbox 2 will have about the same speed but will
> > > > > run on
> > > > > > > > MSIL processors :|. I really hope there will be a linux .net
> > > > > one day.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Mono-devel-list mailing list
> > > > > > > > Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > ====================================================
> > > > > > > Robbie the Nanobot says:
> > > > > > > "Only YOU can prevent gray goo
> > > > > > > (NEVER release nanobot assemblers without replication limiting
> > > > > code)"
> > > > > > > http://lizardslounge.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > ====================================================
> > > > > > > Robbie the Nanobot says:
> > > > > > > "Only YOU can prevent gray goo
> > > > > > > (NEVER release nanobot assemblers without replication limiting
> > > > > code)"
> > > > > > > http://lizardslounge.org
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Mono-devel-list mailing list
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Bas Westerbaan
> > > > > > Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
> > > > > > GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ====================================================
> > > > > Robbie the Nanobot says:
> > > > > "Only YOU can prevent gray goo
> > > > > (NEVER release nanobot assemblers without replication limiting
> > > > > code)"
> > > > > http://lizardslounge.org
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Mono-devel-list mailing list
> > > > > Mono-devel-list at lists.ximian.com
> > > > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Bas Westerbaan
> > > > Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
> > > > GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bas Westerbaan
> > > Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
> > > GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Bas Westerbaan
> > Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
> > GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-devel-list
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Bas Westerbaan
> Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
> GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
--
Bas Westerbaan
Bas.Westerbaan at gmail.com
GPG Public Keys: http://w-nz.com/keys/bas.westerbaan.asc
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